The march towards Rome continues. What reformation, I hear you ask?
If you research the history of the popes, you will find a trail of some of the most wicked behavior in the lives of any human being, never mind those professing to be the “voice of God on earth.” Others through the years have led scandal free lives, although at the same time propagating heresies that have helped lead many straight to hell. Now the world has their newest pope (Francis) whose election prompted many “evangelicals” to further damage the cause of Christ by praising his selection. Such is the state of apostasy that reaches into the very pulpits of our churches.
The Church of the Nazarene (and other denominations) is now embracing Roman Catholicism as being on a par with its own theology. This was illustrated clearly when a popular theology professor, Mark Maddix, told me and my friend Tim Wirth that the Roman Catholic Church preaches the same…
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The Narrowing Path 
Sherryn,
Thanks for sharing this very important posting. My heart has always gone out to those who look to the teachings of man to be their ultimate source of truth. Lord bless you!
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Manny Silva is misunderstanding the Catholic pope.
I f an atheist follows (obeys) his conscience he can go to heaven. This is true, because in Catholic and Protestant theology the conscience is connected to “natural law”. (Rom 2:15) There is a law written on all our hearts of the truth of Gods existence. If atheist follows is law (their conscience) they will no longer be atheist, but believers.
Sinners are to follow and obey their consciences. This leads to conversion and faith in God and Jesus Christ. Of coarse Gods grace is the primary mover. I was taught this as an Evangelical Christian. Catholics believe the same.The same is true of the atheist.
If the atheist obeys his conscience he will be in heaven, not as an atheist but as a believer. People; sinners and atheist who don’t obey their consciences “defile” their consciences. That is what Paul says (Titus 1:15). That is what the Pope is saying as well. In other words, “stop defiling your conscience”.
Obeying your conscience is biblical. Just do a word study.
If the pope is saying what you are reading into his statement he is contradicting his own Catholic faith. And a damn fool too.
The pope is biblical on this one. Protestants believe this too.
“… The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience”.
“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”
The starting point for all unbelievers is our “conscience”, not just the atheist. (Our conscience tells us we are sinners). The conscience is a gift from God. Thank God the atheist that obeys it will be a Christian.
Cordially, Tim Holly
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Hi Tim,
Thanks for your input. I believe the best way to help clarify the Scriptures is to direct you to godly men who preach the word of God faithfully. That is why I have included the links below. I pray that the Lord will bless you through these teachings, as you seek His truth. I would love to hear back from you for further discussion.
The following Bible study is called “What must I do to be saved” which clearly addresses the biblical doctrines of salvation and grace. It is easy to read through and includes the relevant Scriptures, in context.
This is excellent, trustworthy Christian teaching from a retired pastor, Rob Barkman who is still in active service to the Lord through his teaching ministry.
I am also including links to three biblical sermons by Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones, on the Romans passage you are referring to. I urge you to listen to them…they will no doubt nourish you soul as they have mine!
http://www.mljtrust.org/sermons/ungodliness/
http://www.mljtrust.org/sermons/their-foolish-heart-was-darkened/
http://www.mljtrust.org/sermons/they-became-fools/
In relation to the doctrines of the Catholic Church, the following article might be most helpful in clarifying where the teachings of the Catholic Church, and indeed the beliefs of many sincere Catholics, go against God’s Word:
Click to access Are_you_right_with_God.pdf
The other articles on Richard Bennett’s website may also be useful in understanding the Catholic Church, and why the Pope contradicts even his own official doctrines. This is not because he is a fool (except perhaps in the sense defined in Romans). It is because he is serving another master.
Most Christians I know, myself included, have at one time or another believed a significant amount of false doctrine. It can be hard to let go of things we have believed to be true, but in the end we must read the Word of God ourselves, praying for our eyes to be open by the Holy Spirit to the truth of His Word. Then we must repent.
I too believed in some of the beliefs you have expressed in your response, which seem to be (or at least border on) universalism, which Pope Francis openly teaches, as does the emergent church and parts of the evangelical church. However, this is not biblical Christianity. It truly is hard to accept that man does willfully rebel against God, even when he knows God’s laws and the consequences of sin. In accepting this, it means we have to accept it about ourselves. That is why most people reject the Word of God. If you haven’t before, I urge you to listen to the Sermon Link on my blog called “The Dying Universalist”.
While I don’t advocate experience over the Word of God as some do, we can certainly use our ability to observe the world around us to assist us in understanding the Scriptures. When we compare what we witness with our own eyes against the Word of God, our experience can be most helpful. To illustrate this point, I have known many people who commit heinous sins, without a care in the world. (I have done it myself, as have all people except Jesus Christ). These people are not going against their conscience at all. They love their sin. They deny they are sinning, in fact some even deny the existence of sin, or simply redefine sin outside of God’s own definition. And they believe this to be truth. Some are atheists, some are even famous professing ‘Christians’. Will they go to heaven? Of course not, unless they repent and believe the Word of God and put their faith in Jesus Christ as revealed in all the Scriptures. The Bible couldn’t be clearer.
1 John 1:5-10
5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Atheists say they have no sin, therefore the truth is not in them. They do not confess their sins to God, nor do they confess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, so they are not forgiven and are not saved and will perish under God’s wrath. This is deadly serious, and to deny this truth is to deny Jesus Christ. There is no satisfaction to be found in knowing that many are perishing. Thankfully God calls some to salvation by his grace. But not all.
The Lord Jesus himself was very, very clear about salvation. We should look no further than what he says, as he is the author and perfecter of our salvation, and is God himself. Here is what he says:
Matthew 7: 13-14
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. The gate is wide and the road is wide that leads to hell, and many people enter through that gate.
14 But the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to true life. Only a few people find that road.
Matthew 8:34-38
34 Then Jesus called the crowd to him, along with his followers. He said, “If people want to follow me, they must give up the things they want. They must be willing even to give up their lives to follow me.
35 Those who want to save their lives will give up true life. But those who give up their lives for me and for the Good News will have true life. 36 It is worthless to have the whole world if they lose their souls.
37 They could never pay enough to buy back their souls.
38 The people who live now are living in a sinful and evil time. If people are ashamed of me and my teaching, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes with his Father’s glory and with the holy angels.”
I hope this response has been of some help to you. Blessings in Christ, Sherryn
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Sherryn
The Catholic church does not teach Universalism. This is just silly. Read the cannons of Trent, read the documents of Vatican II and read cateceism of the Catholic Church. Dont read sensational headlines by secular media that want the pope to believe like them. Be assrued the Catholic Church belives in hell. They believe heretics and atheist go there who do not repent. The pope was clearly teaching that atheists must have a humble and contrite heart to find God. Read what he said. Not what the media thinks he said. I have found we Evangelicals want to put the pope and theCatholic Church in the worst possible light. But I think this is changing. Protestantism is dying along with the Refermation. But some how the unchanging Catholic Church lives on, and defeats her enemies through the centuries. It really makes me wonder why. How about you?
Cordailly, Tim
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Hi Tim,
Just to clarify, in my earlier comment I specifically said that Pope Francis (not the Church) taught universalism, in direct contradiction to the official doctrine of the Catholic Church. He knows what he is doing. He is preaching an insidious, spiritually dangerous gospel that at its heart is the same as all pagan beliefs. That is why he is so popular, and successful in his interfaith activities. It isn’t interfaith, it is the same faith. It just isn’t the Christian faith. I do actually read his teachings.
You may not be aware but I have read what this Pope, the previous Pope, the Catholic Catechism and the various Vatican officials and Vatican committees have published, from their own Vatican website. I rarely rely on mainstream media (although sometimes Catholic media is interesting), and in fact prefer things ‘straight from the horse’s mouth’ so to speak. I have found in my research that all false teachers condemn themselves with their own words, when tested against Scripture. One rarely needs the media to do it.
Having said that, there is a difference between what the mainstream media produces, and what faithful Christian pastors and watchmen write to warn fellow believers of false teachings. Of that latter category, clearly I am open about these sources as is evidenced by the sites I link to here.
Still, I think for the sake of clarity I need to be clear again. The Catholic Church teaches a false gospel of salvation plus works and tradition. It is a gospel that, by biblical definition, cannot save. So apart from the elect that God calls out of the Catholic Church (and other false churches), these are not brothers and sisters in Christ. So the fact that the Catholic Church is growing is meaningless as an indicator of its doctrinal correctness. If anything, it indicates a gradual departure from much of the traditional Catholic doctrines. Doesn’t that make you wonder? I personally don’t wonder at all why this growth is happening. The Scriptures clearly tell what we can expect in the last days. One government, one religion, and eventually the false Christ (whoever that may be).
Church growth as an indicator of God’s favour and blessing is one of the biggest lies ever believed by the modern church. The religion of Islam is spreading like wildfire around the world, the false charismatic church is doing likewise. Am I to believe that God is blessing them and turning his back on his remnant? The Scriptures assure me, no. Obviously, if I were a universalist I would believe this to be possible. However, I would also make God out to be a liar, as he is very clear about how salvation is gained:
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Note, in this passage that those ‘good works’ that we are to do are not even of our own initiative…they are prepared by God before we are even saved, and he then leads us in those good works. Again, why? So we can boast in nothing except Jesus Christ and him crucified. You will never here Pope Francis preach this gospel.
The rapid spread of false religion, including the strengthening and growth of the Catholic Church, combined with the relentless attack on the true Body of Christ simply fulfills the promise Jesus gave his disciples and those who would follow after them…the world will hate them, and there will be few who enter into eternal life. That is a cause for great heartache among believers, and highlights an urgent need to preach the Gospel to all who are lost.
I provided links in my last response in the hope that you would be willing to hear the Gospel from godly men. I think that on matters of doctrinal difference, that is the appropriate biblical response to your queries. Unity in Christ can only be found through unity in His Word, through the work of the Holy Spirit. And what wonderful work it is too! 🙂
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Sherryn
I find it fasinating that you want me to me to hear the Gospel for your godly men and then say this is the biblical responce to my queries. Don’t you believe in “scripture alone” as your finnal authority? You want your links to be a pope for me. Where do you get your authority to say these men are godly and are to be listened to. Only your personal opinion. That is all you offer me?
Food for thought.
Cordailly, Tim
PS The Catholic Church teaches good works come from Gods grace alone. They begin my Gods grace, supported by Gods grace and are completed my Gods grace with His rewards. Trent is clear on this. EVANGELICALS do not carefully read the documents the the Catholic Church. You are saying falsehoods about catholic teaching. Shame on you.
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Tim,
I refer you to godly preachers because it is they that the Holy Spirit has called to preach the Gospel. Godly preachers are biblically defined…those men who submit themselves to the calling of the Holy Spirit to preach the Word faithfully, and do so in accordance with the Scriptures (which we must then check their teachings against). It is also necessary to know the lives of those who preach, that their lives and families demonstrate holiness and obedience to the Lord. That is why I selected the links I did. It is not merely my own opinion. These are men of God.
Also, I particularly provided you with the link to Richard Bennett’s site (bereanbeacon.org) as he has a huge heart for reaching Catholics with the Gospel, being a former Roman Catholic priest himself. It is perfectly appropriate that I recommend him to you on good faith that you are actually seeking truth. I can’t say I have ever had anyone complain about me pointing them to trustworthy resources. I still expect people to assess each resource for themselves, against the plumbline of the Scriptures.
I have engaged in some Scriptural discussion of my own, which I welcomed respectful discussion on not just general criticism in response. By choice, in line with the teaching of the Scriptures, I do not take a major role in teaching the gospel. It is not my calling, and as a women I submit myself to biblical limitations wherever possible. That is why this blog has carefully selected sermons and articles, mostly from men. The articles by women (including myself) are either of a different nature (ie. topical, current affairs etc) or were written to teach other women.
I pray that if you are truly seeking understanding in the power of the Holy Spirit, that He might move you to listen to the messages I posted, as he has strongly led me to do over the past twelve months. As I said, they have been a blessing. I sense you have a lot of anger over these issues, and I wonder why you have chosen here to express them. In some ways I understand, as I have struggled over the years with the exclusivity of the orthodox Christian faith. However, having been convicted by the Holy Spirit of my erroneous beliefs, I can no longer support the false teachings done in the name of the Lord. I don’t seek to find minor error, but rather to address the significant and dangerous errors taught in the name of Christ.
I have no enmity towards Roman Catholic adherents, nor people of any other religion. Despite a lot of research, I rarely address issues of error in the Catholic Church partly because the issues in the Christian church are more pressing at this time and because the issues in the Catholic Church are very complex and also political. However, the Catholic Church, like many other religion has many contradictory teachings and practices. Its catechism may say one thing, but the Pope will teach another thing entirely. This is not unique to the Catholic Church, but rather to fallen humanity. Much of what the Pope is teaching and promoting should be of concern to Catholics, and in some cases it is.
Tim, if you view the Council of Trent as authoritative on matters of doctrine, and support the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church then we are not of the same faith. To the RCC I am a heretic and accursed. Since I will not recant my heretical beliefs, I stand outside the ‘mother’ church, condemned. Therefore, to you who seem to believe the RCC is teaching God’s truth, I will be speaking falsehoods.
Since we are not of the same faith, is there any point in further discourse? This blog is not designed to be an interfaith dialogue, although unbelievers are welcome to inquire about matters of Christian faith and doctrine. I have no need to win arguments or coerce anyone to agree with me. We all have those in life who think what we believe is false. It can make for difficult conversations. But it doesn’t justify being unkind.
I would certainly appreciate it if you would engage here with a kind attitude, or not at all. I expect to make errors, and will accept loving correction. I have no desire to engage with private individuals in arguments of this nature. If however, the Spirit moves you to listen to any of the sermons I posted, I would love to hear back from you.
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